UAL Flight 934 Diverted to Boston

I received a copy of an email circulating in the airline/flight community detailing the events that took place aboard United Airlines Flight 934 late last month causing it to be diverted to Boston. This was written by one of the airline employees who was on the flight, and details what happened and why the flight crew was concerned about these passengers.

The email (slightly edited for clarity and privacy concerns) is below:

"Many of you may have seen CNN and other news reports or read in the papers about the LAX/[London] flight that diverted to Boston to remove three suspicious passengers. Well, guess who was lucky enough to be on the flight? Thanks to those of you who have called or written with their concern. I am fine and other than a million reports I have to write, all is well.

The three Pakistani passengers, two in BC [business class] seats (8A and 14D) and one in economy, got our attention before takeoff with self upgrading, moving about the plane, changing seats several times and asking the crew about our layover, where we stayed, etc. We basically ignored them and wrote them off as bothersome. During the bar service, two of the guys kept drinking a lot, and asking for refills before we got two rows away. Now we wrote them off as obnoxious, as well as annoying. We cut down the drinks to the guy in who wanted more scotch and wine with dinner. After the meal service, the guy in 8A, who hadn't said a word, got up and went to 14D and spoke with him for 10 minutes. We didn't even know they knew each other as they had no prior contact. The F/A's [flight attendants] in economy were concerned over the behavior of the economy passenger and asked for a name check. The cockpit got back to us to let us know all had gone through secondary clearance in LAX and were all ticketed to Islamabad, Pakistan. All the guys kept going to the bathroom and now we were checking the loos every time they came out. After 8A spoke with 14D, he (14D) went to economy and went straight to the overhead in 32CDE, took out a briefcase and brought it back to his BC seat. 32E was where the economy passenger was originally seated, but he had moved to 31G on the aisle. All the F/A's were keeping an eye on these three and every time we would casually look at them, they were staring at us, watching everything we were doing. The economy guy went to the back galley and kept the duty free sellers busy by asking to see everything and having them open several items to the point where one of them wrote on a piece of paper to another F/A, "He's distracting us, see what's happening in the cabin"....

I was communicating all this information to the cockpit, as well as our concerns. I don't think they took it as seriously as we did. That was until the economy guy went to the F/A's in the back and asked them if we had been up in the air for 3 1/2 hours yet. He kept asking when 3 1/2 hours would be. At the same time, the 14D guy went up to the BC F/A's and asked if we'd been flying 3, 3 1/2 or 4 hours yet. Now most passengers ask how much longer we have to go and not if we've been flying a specific time, and we figured with all their drinking, they didn't want to know the time so they could face Mecca for their prayers.

UAL and the pilots decided we needed to divert before we got over the Atlantic (we were about 3 1/2 hours out from LAX, over the Hudson Bay) so we did a slow turn and descent to Boston for 1:50 hours. We also pulled the circuit breaker on the airshow [stopped the in-flight entertainment]. About 5 minutes before landing, the Captain made announcement we had a navigational problem that needed to be looked at before we crossed the ocean. We were all watching the guys when they were told we were landing, and none reacted abnormally. We moved a very muscular passenger to seat 1E on the aisle and an SA to seat 1A and told them we had security issues and if anyone not in uniform came up the aisle towards the cockpit, they were to try and do anything to stop them. We also moved one of the F/A's sitting up front (she is 5 foot and weighs about 100 pounds) to another jumpseat and moved another male F/A up front so there were three guys in the jumpseats by the cockpit. Having done that, we realized [that she,] the F/A we moved, was so pissed off at these guys, she could have beat the [heck] out of all of them. The one nervous Nellie F/A who walked around with the ice mallet for the last two hours of the flight, we kept in the back where if anything did happen, he could scream and hit himself with the mallet. The Captain informed me just about everyone would meet the airplane.

The landing was normal, and very quiet on the plane since it was 0300 and most passengers were asleep when we woke them. [We] pulled to the gate, but the jetway didn't come toward us for two minutes. I looked out and saw about 30 swat team guys in flak jackets and machine guns. Well, I guess everyone figured out at this point it was not a navigational problem. As I went to door 2, the guy in 8A was staring out the window at our welcoming party. The guy in 14D was on his mobile phone and he was later observed hiding the phone in the pillow when the armed guys came on board. 20 swat team guys boarded the plane, ten down each aisle with guns ready. Most of the passengers were pretty freaked by this. The police took the three guys off. We had to help them find all their carry on. Most of the passengers were very helpful in trying to ID their hand carry on as we really had no idea of what was theirs.

The FBI, TSA, Joint Terrorism Task Force Rep, Boston Police, Airport Police and Massachusetts State Troopers interviewed the Captain, the two F/A's who had the most contact with them and me for two hours. The FBI also interviewed the passengers sitting around the guys. The FBI asked the Captain when he realized the severity of the situation, and he replied, "When he saw the fear in the eyes of his crew..."

By the time we got back to the plane, UAL Ops had shown up and arranged for the passengers to go to hotels for an 1100 departure to continue to London with a new crew. Of course, we then had to wait for immigration to show up since all the non-US and greencard holders were now reentering the US and had to fill out I-94 forms as new visitors and be fingerprinted and photographed again.

When we finally got to the hotel around 0730, we were already on the news, and several hours later, we heard the passengers were interviewed, cleared and released. The FBI told me they felt they were on a test run surveillance flight, observing and watching our routine and looking for weaknesses in our security. All the authorities reassured us we did the right thing and that was backed up by the passengers who thanked us and said that they were so glad we watching out for their well being. I think as F/A's, we sense when something just isn't right, and this flight had too many small incidents that didn't add up, and thankfully, we acted on our feelings."

We should all be on guard for similar circumstances.

Gitmo Detainees: Is their Detention Legal And Moral?

I had an email exchange with a reader this week regarding the detainment of so-called "enemy combatants" at Guantanamo Bay (Gitmo), Cuba. My correspondent cited the judge's statement (PDF) at sentencing of Ahmed Ressam, the "Millenium Bomber", who was apprehended while he attempted to cross from Canada into the United States at a remote border crossing in the state of Washington. He was planning to bomb the Los Angeles International airport on New Year's Eve in 1999 at the "millenium". Mr. Ressam was found guilty, and was sentenced to 22 years in prison.

Here is what I consider the key passage of US federal Judge John Coughenor's statement at Mr. Ressam's sentencing:

"...I would like to convey the message that our system works. We did not need to use a secret military tribunal, or detain the defendant indefinitely as an enemy combatant, or deny him the right to counsel, or invoke any proceedings beyond those guaranteed by or contrary to the United States Constitution.'

I would suggest that the message to the world from today's sentencing is that our courts have not abandoned our commitment to the ideals that set our nation apart. We can deal with the threats to our national security without denying the accused fundamental constitutional protections.'

Despite the fact that Mr. Ressam is not an American citizen and despite the fact that he entered this country intent upon killing American citizens, he received an effective, vigorous defense, and the opportunity to have his guilt or innocence determined by a jury of 12 ordinary citizens."

I agree completely. I don't support the indefinite detention of "enemy combatants", though Mr. Ressam doesn't fit the criteria for that status anyway. I do understand the reasoning behind the detentions, though I think that indefinite detention for these people is the wrong approach.

The Third Geneva Conventions clearly spell out how prisoners of war shall be treated, and Part 1, Article 4, paragraphs 1 and 2 of the III Geneva Conventions defines precisely who is a "prisoner of war":

"(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.'

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[ (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war."

Given the specific conditions of part (2), it seems unlikely that many of those detained at Gitmo could be considered POW's under the Geneva Convention. In fact, the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ruled in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld (July15, 2005) that the Geneva Conventions do not apply to al Qaeda, and that the Geneva Conventions themselves cannot be enforced in US courts.

But ruling in the Rasul v. Bush case in June of 2004, the US Supreme Court held that Gitmo detainees are entitled to challenge their incarceration in federal court, arguing essentially that since the US government holds legal authority over Gitmo and its facilities, that federal courts also hold jurisdiction over the detainees, hence their right to habeas corpus.

In discussions with my email correspondent, I argued erroneously that,

"...there is some contradictory logic here, in my opinion.'

"On the one hand, the government argues that since these people were not in uniform as "citizen" soldiers, that the Geneva Conventions don't apply. If that is true, then why can they [US Administration] at the same time detain them as "enemy combatants" under the same Geneva Convention?"

The flaw in my argument cited above is that the administration does NOT argue that that the detainment of these people, since they are not covered by the Geneva Conventions, is in any way governed by those very Conventions. In fact, in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, the appellate court held that the president had and has the authority, as Commander-in-Chief, and under the the Joint Resolution passed by Congress in 2001 giving the president the authority to use "all necessary and appropriate use of force", and, specifically the Presidential Military Order of November 13th, 2001. which outlines in detail the how "enemy combatants" are defined and treated.

Based on this more in-depth view of the circumstances surrounding the detainees at Gitmo, I believe that their detentions have so far been, and will continue to be lawful and moral, yet politically unwise. The American justice system and our unusual (by global standards) attention to the rights of the accused renders these long-term detentions inappropriate. Being who we are, the United States should, in my opinion, anyway, stand for justice even for those people that we find despicable.


This post also appears on Blogger News Network.

The Press and The Plame Affair

While the left breathlessly and giddily awaits the impeachment hammer to drop on the hated Bush administration, those pesky facts keep stalling the process. As noted here and here, there remains substantial doubt over whether a crime has even been committed in the Plame Affair.

Today we noted a post by JustOneMinute [via The American Thinker] that suggests more press complicity in the Plame Affair. Here's the opening:

"I believe there may be a substantial, ongoing press cover-up in the Plame leak investigation. Various White House staffers claim to have heard about Ms. Plame from reporters, but not many reporters seem to have been subpoenaed - for example, in their recent coverage Adam Liptak of the Times only noted Matt Cooper of TIME, Judy Miller of the NY Times, Walter Pincus and Glenn Kessler of the WaPo, and Tim Russert of NBC News, in addition to the shadowy Robert Novak."

The whole post is fascinating reading, and goes into significant detail on how the press is reporting the story.

I find it very interesting that the MSM is, on the one hand, shocked that someone leaked the name of a CIA employee (the facts surrounding her real status as a NOC notwithstanding), yet on the other hand has filed an amicus brief to maintain the confidentiality of their sources! In a town such as Washington, where the press and those actually in positions of power in government have such a symbiotic relationship that lives on leaks, it is amazing that the press has the audacity to feign shock at this leak, but at nearly the same time hold up as a 'triumph of journalism' the leaks of Mark Felt, aka Deep Throat.

***

While reading JustOneMinute, I also saw this interesting post about the possibility that Ari Fleischer, who was White House Press Secretary at the time the Plame Affair emerged, may be the real leaker. The timeline certainly makes sense.

The Plame Affair

To follow up my recent post on the Plame Affair, it is worthwhile to dig deeper into two areas: First, the question of whether a crime has even been committed; and second, considering their incredibly zealous pursuit of Karl Rove,what exactly did the mainstream media (MSM) argue before the US Court of Appeals in the Cooper/Miller (Plame) case?

First, a look at the Intelligence Protection Act of 1982 (amending the National Security Act of 1947), the controlling statute in this situation. This act lays out several conditions which must all be met before a crime has been committed. These conditions are:

1. That the 'leaker' has or had access to classified information that identifies a covert agent;
2. That the US government is taking "affirmative measures" to protect the identity of the covert agent;
3. That the 'leaker' knowingly leaks classified information with the intent to "out" the covert agent;
4. That the recipient of the classified information is not authorized to receive classified information;
5. And finally, that the US government had not "publicly acknowledged or revealed" the covert status of the agent.

Based on what I know about the case today, Karl Rove certainly had access to classified information (condition 1), though it seems unlikely to me that he would have access to classified information on the identity of specific covert agents, particularly such a low-level agent as Plame.

Since Plame was evidently coming and going to CIA headquarters every day through the main entrance, it seems unlikely that condition 2 has been met. Moreover, Plame's husband admitted that his wife was not a clandestine officer when the Novak article ran. In addition, if Plame really was using the front entrance, and working under her own name, and the CIA allowed such open entry/exit, then it seems to me that such allowance qualifies as "publicly acknowledging" her relationship with the CIA, providing further exculpatory evidence for Mr. Rove, and satisfying condition 5.

Plame was also named at least as early as 2002 as the wife of Ambassador Wilson, and was known in the mid 1990's by Russian intelligence, as well as in Cuba through the mis-handling of secret documents by US officials at the Swiss embassy in Havana, both of which, by the way, occurred prior to Novak's article in July, 2003.

Based on what I have read and heard Mr. Rove's conversation with Michael Cooper, wherein the identity of Valerie Plame was discussed, Rove's intent was to dissuade Cooper from publishing a story that contained 'false statements'. He did not pass along her name at all, according to Rove's attorney. If this is true, then condition 3 (above) is also not met.

Condition 4 certainly is met, considering that Novak is hardly authorized to receive classified information.

This brings us to the amicus (PDF), or "friend of the court" brief filed by the consortium of news organizations that is a virtual "who's who" of the MSM. [Hat tip, Andrew McCarthy, NRO]

In this brief, which the MSM consortium filed in an effort to protect journalists from divulging confidential sources (a strange irony, I know!), they argue passionately and with compelling supporting facts that since she was so well known prior to this episode as an intelligence officer, that no crime could have been committed by her "outing" in the Novak article.

They cite these facts (among others):

1. That Plame's husband, former Ambassador Wilson, was not a CIA officer;
2. That he was not required to sign a confidentiality agreement;
3. That he was not prevented from writing an op-ed piece about his trip;
4. That when Novak called the CIA to confirm that Plame worked for the CIA, the CIA confirmed that she did, and that "the agency failed to give him a serious request not to publish her name". (They argue that usually in such cases (a covert officer's name potentially published) a senior-level officer contacts the journalist and ask that they NOT publish);
5. And that the CIA did nothing to prevent Plame from making political contributions in her own name;

We do know that eventually, the Supreme Court ordered they reporters to divulge their sources, and eventually Mr. Cooper did so. We also know that both he and Judith Miller received written releases from their confidential sources at least a year ago, so why they waited until the threat of jail was about to be carried out to give them up (Miller did not divulge her sources, and is now in jail) is a mystery that raises new questions about their motivations in this regard.

So if the MSM is so convinced that no crime has been committed, as their brief lays out so well, one must ask why they are not with equal vigor defending Karl Rove instead of attacking him. It is difficult to draw any conclusions other than media bias, and their obvious hatred of Bush, Rove, and Cheney.

The facts do not support further investigation, and unless some new and stunning information is unearthed by the Special Prosecutor, no indictments will be forthcoming.


This post also appears on Blogger News Network.

Edited last sentence of paragraph preceeding the cited facts from MSM amicus brief, and corrected punctuation in second-to-last paragraph.. -JZS 7.24.05

The Left's Obsession with Karl Rove

Reviewing the left-wing websites and blogs about the so-called "outing" of Valery Plame by the guy they may hate even more than George W. Bush—Karl Rove—one can only come to the conclusion that the Angry Left is living in some kind of parallel universe. Many of these Angry Leftists (AL) are convinced that Rove illegally "outed" Valerie Plame as a NOC (non-official cover) during a phone conversation with columnist Robert Novak.

However, many of the facts don't actually fit the "crime". First, for a crime to have been committed, the agent must be actively working to keep their affiliation secret. Second, the person 'leaking' the information must knowingly do so knowing that the person in question is undercover.

In the Plame case, she was openly working at CIA headquarters, her friends and neighbors knew she worked there, and, reports suggest that a State Department memo had circulated through Airforce One, including the press corps, as well as in other places in Washington. That she was a NOC CIA operative is not in dispute, but the fact that she was hardly concealing her relationship to the CIA, and the apparent fact that most of the Washington press corps knew about it seems to have been conveniently forgotten by the MSM.

And speaking of the MSM, a consortium of 36 major MSM outlets (all the mainstream media, including NYT, WP, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, etc.) filed an amicas brief (scroll down) with the court in the case of the two reporters ordered to divulge their sources or go to jail, arguing that the two reporters should not be required to divulge sources since no crime was committed. How convenient that they now seem to believe otherwise.

Despite the obvious "no there there" to this matter, the left is all a tingle, thinking that Bush will even be impeached over this! I will admit that with a special prosecutor involved, anything could happen, but based on what I know about this case, I don't even foresee an admonition coming down. No crime was committed, and no breach of trust was committed, and the facts will continue to support this contention.


This post also appears on Blogger News Network.

The City of San Diego in Crisis

If you haven't been following the political melt-down in San Diego government, you've missed some incredible drama. First, there is an on-going federal investigation into the city employee's pension fund. Seems that big increases in retirement benefits without adequately funding these increases paved the way to a $1.7 billion short-fall, which lead to the down-grading of municiple bonds to junk status. The pension board itself is the target of several criminal investigations, and many on the board have resigned.

This situation, several years in the making, lead to a very tight mayoral election in 2004 that gained national attention with the late write-in candidacy of a sitting council member, which was eventually decided by a state judge in favor of the incumbant mayor. However, the widening multiple scandals in town lead to the now re-elected mayor to resign, effective July 15th.

The deputy mayor, who, along with a fellow councilman was on trial for corruption, assumed the duties of the mayor on Friday, but before he could preside over his first council meeting as mayor on the following Monday, was convicted. He has since resigned, and his co-defendent on the council is expected to resign on Thursday.

The odd thing about this is that there was apparently no back-up plan by the council in the event that the deputy mayor was found guilty, so it's not clear who is in charge at City Hall.

Add to this embarassing mess the situation that congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham finds himself in regarding a highly questionable (the best I can say about it) real estate deal with a defence contractor who's business stands to gain from favorable treatment by Cunningham's Appropriations Committee, and you have a real political melt-down.

There will be a special election next Tuesday to fill the mayoral position, but there are over a dozen candidates on the ballot, and if one doesn't receive a majority (50% plus one vote) then a runoff will be held in November.

The pension fund is likely to go into receivership, no one wants to serve on its board, and there are lawsuits being filed seemly daily.

At least the weather is perfect!


This post also appears on Blogger News Network.

Global Warming & G8

Philip Stott writes today in today's Spiked about the failure of the G8 conference in Gleneagles, Scotland to address global warming in a way that could be viewed as a victory for greens.

Mr. Stott's analysis is very interesting and discusses how the issue is viewed in Europe, and how much "faith" is involved in being a "believer".

An exerpt:

"Despite all the hype, where 'global warming' is concerned, the Greens have failed to force their paranoid religion on to the world. Like many Europeans, most Canadians are happy to talk 'green', while they continue to promote a profligate and hedonistic lifestyle that would make even George Bush blush beneath his Texan hat. In yuppie Yaletown and gaudy Gastown, patio heaters spring up like salmonberries. Canadian suburbs should be renamed the SUVurbs, while Canadian drivers idle with the best."

CIA "Outing"

Byron York has a great commentary today in The Hill on the Plame/Rove controversy.

"The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions"

I don't know who said that originally, but it seems very appropriate when applied to modern left-wing idealogy. I wasn't around during the Russian Revolution, but I suspect that Lenin and his followers had the 'peoples' best interests in mind when they overthrew the Czar and installed communism. It seems logical that Stalin later meant to build a better socialist state when he starved millions through his actions, or lack of actions during the 1930's. Hitler's National Socialist Party sought to make life better for Germans by ridding them of their Jewish brethren and by seeking the domination of the western world. Pol Pot and his regime were only trying to build a better 'workers paradise' when they killed as many as 1/7th of their population.

In all of these cases, millions died as a result of government believing it could put to better use private property.

These are only a few of the many examples I can cite of good intentions of the left gone bad. Consider the recent Kelo decision of the US Supreme Court. In that decision, the court's majority held that government can seize private property if government can show that the state (and therefore the people) can gain higher return (through higher tax revenues) from he property if it is turned over to government or a third party for development. How is this view different from that of the notorious leaders discussed above?

That is the problem with so many leftist, progresssive "programs". The basic assumption is that the people are really not smart enough as individuals to "properly" make use of their property and labors, and that only through government action can the needs of the people be met.

That so many on the left think those on the right are none-too-smart is clear; consider the angst of the left in the days following the complete electoral victory of the right at the polls in 2004. Since then the shrillness of the attack on the right from the left has only gotten worse. Given the desparation of the left in these post-election months, it is easy to see how the leaders of the failed socialist regimes of the 20th century felt that it was their duty to rid themselves of those who they felt were clearly not as smart as they, and were therefore a threat to the success of socialism.

More Justification For the War On Terror

(As If We Needed Any More!)

RightWingNews has an excellent post about the War on Terror, justifications for it, its connections to Iraq, 9/11, and debunks fully the many false claims by the Left on these issues.

(via Dissecting Leftism)

The War on Terror

The war on terror continues. The 7-7 bombings of London this week clearly illustrate the global nature of the war. The first engagement of the war is generally considered to be the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, although its origins can go back further:

• 1973 terror attack at the Rome airport, where more than 30 people were killed and a plane was hijacked;
  
  
• The assassination of Egyptian president Anwar Sadat in 1981;
  
  
• The 1983 bombing of the US embassy in Beirut by Islamic Jihad, wherein 63 people died;
  
  
• The 1983 bombing of the US Marine barracks in Beirut (242 killed), and the French barracks in Beirut (58 dead);
  
  
• The kidnap and murder of diplomat William Buckley in Beirut, 1984, by Islamic Jihad;
  
  
• The 1984 bombing of a restaurant in Spain frequented by US servicemen (18 sailors killed, 83 injured);
  
  
• The Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro hijacking in 1985 (1 dead);
  
  
• The 1985 Rome and Vienna airport attacks by the Abu Nidal group (16 deaths, more than 100 injured);
  
  
• 1986 Berlin disco bombing, killing 2 and injuring 79 US servicemen;
  
  
• Pan Am flight 103, blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland (259 dead);
  
  
• The foiled Iraqi bombing of the US ambassador to Indonesia in 1991;
  
  
• The World Trade Center bombing (mentioned above) where 6 died and more than 1,000 injured;
  
  
• The 1993 attempted assassination of former president Bush in Kuwait by Iraqi intelligence agents;
  
  
• Khobar Towers bombing in 1996, in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 US servicemen and wounding 515 others, including 240 US servicemen;
  
  
• US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, Africa in 1998, killing 301 and injuring over 5,000;
  
  
• USS Cole bombing in 2000, killing 17 and injuring 39;
  
  
• And of course, September 11th, 3,025 killed in 3 hijacked airliners that attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and a the crash of the third plane as US citizens made the first counter-strike and fought to regain control of the plane from the terrorists. Who knows how many more would have been killed at the US capitol or the White House had not brave American civilians been willing to fight back...

As noted in this space before, the war on terror is a battle for freedom and democracy the world over. For the radicals who perpetrate these atrocities, no amount of reasoning will stop the violence. They understand only the smoking barrel of a gun and the power of a bomb.

Despite claims by the Left to the contrary, Iraq,and 9-11 are linked directly as they both are part of the long timeline above. Iraq, as outlined recently on NRO, was directly linked to 9-11, and the toppling of Sadam Hussien has made the world safer.

There is a tiny bit of good news in this recent tragedy, however: (hat tip, RealClearPolitics) An excerpt:

More striking have been the condemnations from radical groups like Hamas, Hizbullah and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, all of which have denounced the bombings. Many of them have, of course, coupled their attacks on the terrorists with denunciations of American and British policies in the Middle East, particularly regarding Iraq and the Palestinian territories. But that kind of rhetoric is old news. What is new here is the fact that no one, not even Hamas, can continue to condone or even stay silent about these barbarities.

This post also appears on Blogger News Network.

London's 7/7 Bombings

As I write this, the death toll from the 7/7 bombings in London have reached 50 souls. As we were all New Yorkers in the days after 9/11, we are now Londoners, just as we have agonized over the daily bombings in Iraq. Our hearts go out to the families of those killed or wounded, and we hope that those responsible are brought to justice swiftly. If foreign governments can be connected to this, then we must bring those countries to justice as well, if necessary, by the use of military force.

Why would someone do this? Amir Tahiri writes a guest opinion in today's Times (of London) that may shed light on this question.

(Hat tip, RealClearPolitics)

9/11, The War On Terror, and Iraq

President Bush's speech on Tuesday night was an update on the War on Terror. The most recent battlefield in that war is Iraq. Despite the assertions of the Left following the speech, the president did not link 9-11 and Iraq, except that the Iraq is a battle in the War on Terror. If you missed the speech, you can read the transcript here.

Andrew McCarthy of National Review Online wrote an excellent article on the speech, and how Iraq and al-Qaeda are linked and were involved prior to 9-11.

Here is an excerpt:

"It was good to hear the commander-in-chief remind people that this is still the war against terror. Specifically, against Islamo-fascists who slaughtered 3000 Americans on September 11, 2001. Who spent the eight years before those atrocities murdering and promising to murder Americans — as their leader put it in 1998, all Americans, including civilians, anywhere in the world where they could be found.

It is not the war for democratization. It is not the war for stability. Democratization and stability are not unimportant. They are among a host of developments that could help defeat the enemy.

But they are not the primary goal of this war, which is to destroy the network of Islamic militants who declared war against the United States when they bombed the World Trade Center on February 26, 1993, and finally jarred us into an appropriate response when they demolished that complex, struck the Pentagon, and killed 3000 of us on September 11, 2001.

That is why we are in Iraq."

"If God Didn't Want Us To Eat Animals, Why Did He Make Them Taste So Good?" **UPDATED**

I always get a chuckle when I see that bumper sticker. Obviously, I am not a vegetarian, but I have often wondered what the attraction to it is, and why someone would would make the difficult commitment to being one. In our modern society, it has got to be a very difficult lifestyle to maintain, as the consumption of animal products is so widespread and found in so many different food products.

My assumption is that most people who become vegetarian or vegan (vegetarians eat dairy, vegans do not) do so because they believe that killing and eating animals is wrong for moral reasons, though they tend to tout the "health benefits" of such a diet as well. I am confident that some people cannot eat meat for health reasons, and some people simply don't like the taste. But for most, I think, the attraction is primarily their belief that the farming, slaughtering, butchering, and ultimately the consumption of animals and animal products is morally wrong. Frankly, I don't have a problem with that view, except that it completely lacks any logical foundation. But more on that in a minute.

I did find lots of sources on the web for reasons to become a vegetarian. Here are 101. Based on this list, I suspect most vegetarians are not strong supporters of George Bush, but I could be wrong, of course.

Personally, I couldn't become a vegetarian on moral grounds because for me it is not logical to argue that the killing and consumption of animals is wrong, but the killing and consumption of plants is OK. Just because plants aren't cute and furry doesn't mean they aren't alive. They have 'parents', are born, grow up, have 'children', grow old, and die. They evolve through environmental influences and through breeding. They need food and water and warmth and sunlight and air. Just because they don't run around or fly or swim doesn't mean they have no "feelings" or emotions. Since we can't hear them speak, we don't know if they communicate, but it can't be proven that they don't communicate. In fact, in my back yard there is a tree that was planted recently. A vine from the neighbor's yard keeps trying to bridge the 6 foot gap from the fence to the tree, but only right there where the tree is planted. How does the vine know the tree is there? Can it see it? Can it hear it? Can it smell it?

The point is this: Why is it OK to kill and eat plants, but not OK to kill and eat animals?

A corollary to this issue is "dolphin-safe tuna". So it's OK to kill and eat tuna—a cold-blooded fish—but we are outraged that "intelligent", warm-blooded dolphins are sometimes caught and killed in the same net as the tuna. Why is intelligence the measure of the acceptability of killing and eating? How do we know that tuna aren't as smart as dolphins? Why should their relative intelligence factor at all in which species is more deserving of death and consumption?

People who favor these positions cannot bring any logical argument to support their position, and I for one cannot support a position that cannot withstand a simple test of logic.

UPDATE: Here is an interesting comment string from this post as it appeared in Blogger News Network:

Science shows that plants have no central nervous system, no brain, have no cognition. Contrary to the statement that their is no logic to the position that it is wrong to eat animals on the basis of their intelligence, there is a great deal of logic to such a stance. Human beings are supposed to be very tasty--ask Hannibal Lecter--but we don't generally eat each other because we recognize the babarity of killing . Similarly, most of us in the predominant culture in the US don't eat dogs and cats because we recognize that they do have cognition, feel pain, express affection and joy and so on, and some extend the feeling of disgust that killing and consuming these household pets engenders to horses as well. Where the logical position falters is not with vegetarians but with meat eaters. Why is it okay to eat a cow or a pig but not a horse or dog? Why do we even recognize that there is a difference in kind between mammals and other species? Mammals, including whales and dolphins, are our evolutionary kin. That is why there is indeed a difference between killing and eating such highly evolved animals and killing and eating fish. I myself am a vegetarian but I have no quarrel at all with those who live in harsh climates where the killing of animals is a means of survival--that after all is the first imperative of us all. But for most of us, the consumption of meat is elective and not only not necessary for good health but actually deletorious to it. The environmental pollution it creates, the health problems it engenders, and above all the moral and ethical numbness that it creates all argue against it. I would strongly assert that this is a completely logical proposition.

Comment by Joseph Turner, 6/24/2005 2:34:58 AM


____

I'm no vegetarian, but since you "cannot support a position that cannot withstand a simple test of logic" and also attempt to argue absurdity by claiming that we should not distinguish between dolphins and tuna, I wonder what you eat at all? Using your logic, you would not eat anything that is edible (perhaps you would eat rocks and metal - or are they alive on some metaphysical or elemental level?), or you would eat everything that is edible, including humans.

The fact is, there is no "logic" to what anyone eats. The explanations for what people eat include what they have been taught to eat and not to eat, either for means of health and/or conscience, or trial and error (supposing one gets sick when they eat something poisonous).

Comment by Sammy Larbi, 6/24/2005 9:19:08 AM


____


Joseph, thanks for your comments:


"we don't generally eat each other because we recognize the babarity of killing." I disagree completely. Humans have throughout our history found killing each other and other species to be completely acceptable under certain circumstances, with some societies more accepting than others. However, the fact that we don't generally eat humans has nothing at all to do with the "babarity [sic] of killing", but out of respect for our dead, and, I suspect, an inate survival instinct, i.e. if we kill and each each other, then our species' survival is at risk by our own hands (and mouths). Killing for other purposes, however, the protection of our 'tribe', for example, are generally acceptable reasons.

"Why is it okay to eat a cow or a pig but not a horse or dog?" Many societies do eat dogs and horses. Most westerners do not, of course, mainly because we consider them pets or working animals. I also suspect that they are not as tasty as pigs or cows, but haven't tried one to be sure! :)

"Mammals, including whales and dolphins, are our evolutionary kin. That is why there is indeed a difference between killing and eating such highly evolved animals and killing and eating fish." So we agree that the killing and eating of animals (including fish) is acceptable and moral, but your criteria for what is an acceptable species to kill and eat differs from mine.

Sammy, also thanks for your comments. I am a happy carnivore and herbivore. My point about the dolphin-tuna debate was to illustrate the twisted (I'm being kind) logic of those who argue that it is wrong to kill and eat one living being, but not another. I accept the fact that to survive, I MUST kill (even if by proxy) and eat other living beings (plants or animals) to survive. Other than the obvious physical characteristics, I see no less right to life for a blade of grass than a cow. The cow, by the way, is more than happy to eat the grass, it's fellow species. Also, the tuna and the dolphin don't appear to me to care too much about the lower species of fish they kill and eat. How about the 'beautiful and intelligent' grey whale who kills and eats billions of little planctons every day?

To argue that we shouldn't kill and eat animals is not logical, if you also are willing to kill and eat plants.


Comment by James Z. Smith, 6/24/2005 12:04:54 PM



Author "we don't know if they communicate"{ actually, we know that in a way they do. Some species of trees, for example, when infested by insects produce chemicals that are recognized by neighboring trees - which start to produce insect-repellent chemicals before being themselves attacked.

Commentor: "Science shows that plants have no central nervous system, no brain, have no cognition." It is also argued by ichthyoligists that most fish have no cognition or even feel pain. Does an unfertilized egg? A chunk of cheese?

Anyway, the veg-whatevers who want us all to convert are among the most blood-thirsty people about. Consider: if we start eating (domestic raised) meat, what happens to the animals? One word: slaughter. Perhaps by just leaving them to fend for themselves, but slaughter nonetheless - and on an unprecedented scale.

Comment by John Anderson, 6/26/2005 1:15:26 AM



The author of this piece is simply trying to justify their own lack of compassion towards animals. To say that an apple that falls off a tree and is eaten is suffering the same agony that an animal being slaughtered does, is obviously ludicrous. Plants have no need to feel pain (in the sense that we use the word) because they can't do anything to escape the source of it. I fully admit that plants react to harmful stimuli by growing away from them, etc. but this is different than animals' reactions, which are instant, and based on aversion to pain.
The author of this piece seems to think that just because (in his eyes) plants suffer, it's also okay to cause animals suffering. By that logic, it is therefore okay to cause humans suffering too - why not eat humans then?

John Anderson said: "It is also argued by ichthyoligists that most fish have no cognition or even feel pain. Does an unfertilized egg? A chunk of cheese?"

Why would a fish not feel pain? You obviously haven't thought about this very hard (or don't want to, more like). How does a fish feel the current of the river so he/she can swim properly? How does a fish feel the food they are eating? The idea that fish can't feel is patently ludicrous, and laughable. Re your unfertilised eggs and cheese - vegans don't eat them not because an unfertilised egg can feel pain, but because of the pain that the animals these things are taken from feel! What happens to all the male chicks? What happens to all the male calves? Do you care? Obviously not.


James Smith said: "The cow, by the way, is more than happy to eat the grass, it's fellow species."

I'm sure all the biologists in the world will be most pleased that you've managed to redefine the difference betweenn plants and animals as non-existent. How is grass a 'fellow species' of the cow?

Let me explain the whole reasoning behind your post more clearly: you are incapable of compassion, and don't want to feel the suffering of animals that you eat. You're not alone, most of the human race is like this. So you try to justify your lack of caring, with a badly thought out argument.

You cannot logically argue against veganism.

Can you chase a pig down and catch it, and then kill it with your bare hands, and eat its uncooked flesh with your bare teeth? I doubt it, and I hope not. Do you suckle from a cow's breasts? A horse's? A dog's? Why not? Yet you drink milk. Do you find raw eggs appealing? Do they taste nice? Would you eat the half formed embryo of a chick in one? Of course not.
So all the animal products you eat are unnatural to you. You eat them for one reason and one reason alone: you were brought up to eat them. You can't think for yourself, and break away from what society has made you, even though it causes huge amounts of suffering to innocent animals.

Tell me how you chose to be born a human, and not an animal, and then we'll get somewhere.


Comment by James Stevens, 6/27/2005 2:54:14 AM



"The author of this piece is simply trying to justify their own lack of compassion towards animals." This isn't about the author, or about you, but for the record, I have a highly developed sense of empathy and compassion for animals. I could never work for a veterinarian, because I would hate to see dead and dying animals suffer. At the same time, I recognize that like all other living beings, to survive I must kill and eat some of my fellow beings.

"The author of this piece seems to think that just because (in his eyes) plants suffer, it's also okay to cause animals suffering. By that logic, it is therefore okay to cause humans suffering too - why not eat humans then?" On the contrary, it is you, and all vegetarians who choose to believe that since plants don't appear to experience pain, nor can you observe them suffering, that it doesn't happen, and you can therefore feel no guilt about killing and eating them, not to mention raising them specifically for that purpose. Your position on the acceptability of eating plants versus animals is arbitrary, selectively applied, and is therefore no logical. My position, however, is completely logical. I accept the idea that to survive, I must kill and eat animals and/or plants. But I see no difference, ethically speaking, between killing plants and killing animals.

"I'm sure all the biologists in the world will be most pleased that you've managed to redefine the difference betweenn plants and animals as non-existent. How is grass a 'fellow species' of the cow?" I used "species" incorrectly. What I meant was that the grass is a living being, as is the cow. Just like the cow, the grass is a living organism, that eats, drinks, goes through stages of life, reproduces, grows old, and dies. I recognize the cows right to life, which includes the right to kill and eat the grass. I also recognize the grass' right to life, which includes the right to choke out other forms of life competiong for the same food source. So I also recognize the right of the lion to life, which includes the right to kill and eat the antelope, and so on, and so on. Likewise, I recognize the right of humans to kill and eat plants and animals as a part of our right to life.

"Let me explain the whole reasoning behind your post more clearly: you are incapable of compassion, and don't want to feel the suffering of animals that you eat. You're not alone, most of the human race is like this. So you try to justify your lack of caring, with a badly thought out argument." First, you're not me, so you cannot possibly explain "my reasoning". Second, since 1), I already discussed my level of compassion, I won't go over that again, and 2) you don't know me, so you can't possibly speak for me. Your presumptions about my motivation undermines your whole argument.

"Can you chase a pig down and catch it, and then kill it with your bare hands, and eat its uncooked flesh with your bare teeth? I doubt it, and I hope not. Do you suckle from a cow's breasts? A horse's? A dog's? Why not? Yet you drink milk. Do you find raw eggs appealing? Do they taste nice? Would you eat the half formed embryo of a chick in one? Of course not.
So all the animal products you eat are unnatural to you. You eat them for one reason and one reason alone: you were brought up to eat them. You can't think for yourself, and break away from what society has made you, even though it causes huge amounts of suffering to innocent animals." While at one time, humans did similar activities to those you describe, we don't need to today. Farmers, ranchers, and the meat processing industry do that for us. I don't have to kill and eat the same way a lion does to have equal claim to legitimacy.

"Tell me how you chose to be born a human, and not an animal, and then we'll get somewhere." I didn't choose, God did. Would you dispute that humans are at the top of the food chain? For us to kill and eat plants and animals is in our nature, and always has been, since the beginning of human existence and before. To try to deny that now is to deny history. If you choose to be a vegetarian, fine with me. Just don't try to convince me that my decision to remain an omnivore is unethical. Being a human is completely ethical and natural.

Comment by James Z. Smith, 6/27/2005 6:53:36 AM


This post also appears on Blogger News Network.

Hitchens on The Downing Street Memo

Christopher Hitchens' column today on Slate.com is a brilliant editorial that further exposes the Downing Street Memo for "'its niggling mindlessness, its funereal parade of yawn-enforcing facts, the pseudo-light it threw upon non-problems.'", as Hitchens quotes from Kinglsey Amis' Lucky Jim.

(Hat tip: Outside The Beltway)

Studies: Capital Punishment Deters Murder

For many years, I have assumed, like most Americans, that the death penalty was "not a deterrant" to future murders. That was what we have been told by those opposed to the death penalty for years, and the mainstream media has never, to my knowledge, challenged this assumption, nor even reported its foundational study.

Fairly recent research and analysis, however, brought to our attention by Dissecting Leftism (6-17-05), concludes that the death penalty does indeed deter murder, and by a significant margin.

The study, co-authored by economists Hashem Dezhbakhsh, Paul Rubin, and Joanna Mehlhop Shepherd at Emory University titled, "Does Capital Punishment Have a Deterrent Effect? New Evidence from Post-Moratorium Panel Data", studied murder rates and capital punishment between 1977 and 1996. Their conclusions are startling: The application of capital punishment deters an average of 18 murders for each convicted murderer executed.

Ian Murray, a senior research analyst with the Statistical Assessment Service, a non-profit, non-partisan think tank for economics, writes an excellent critique of the Emory study. He describes how this study used statistical models to scientifically arrive at their conclusions, writing that they "calculated the effect on the murder rate of a number of factors including, specifically, the likelihood of being arrested, the chance of being sentenced to death after arrest, and the chance of being executed after sentence. They were then able to work out how significant the chance of being executed is to the murder rate. They found that executions themselves are a very significant factor, certainly much more so than the simple removal of the murderer from the pool of potential killers. And their findings pass all the statistical tests that show that it's not just by chance that the math works that way."

There are other studies I found that show similar results, with summaries compiled at DPINFO. These include a 2003 study by the University of Colorado (Denver), University of Houston (2003), State University of New York (Buffalo) (2001), Clemson (2003), as well as other notable research. All show the statistically significant conclusion that the application of capital punishment clearly deters murder.

New analysis of the study released in March of 2005 by Cass Sunstein and Adian Vermeule of the University of Chicago suggests that the imposition of the death penalty is, given the results of the Emory study, a moral imperitive, writing that, "Capital punishment thus presents a life-life tradeoff, and a serious commitment to the sanctity of human life may well compel, rather than forbid, that form of punishment." (Hat tip GeoPolitical Review via Dissecting Leftism)

As is noted in several of the references above, the mainstream media has been fairly silent on this important issue. A Google search turned up nothing in the MSM on this subject, and if I were the suspicious sort, I might suspect a cover-up, since news of this study in wide circulation might well cause a major set-back to those opposed to capital punishment.

A final note on this subject: This author was once a strong opponent to capital punishment. My opposition was based on the now dis-proven notion that capital punishment was not a deterrant, and on a flawed translation of the 6th Commandment, as discussed in this space before. As noted then, "The 6th Commandment from the Bible’s Old Testament is most commonly translated as “Thou Shall Not Kill”, but many Biblical scholars say the correct translation should be, “Thou Shall Not Commit Murder”, based on the meaning of the Hebrew word, “Ratsach”.

As a result of this better translation, and the clear fact that capital punishment certainly deters the condemned from ever again committing murder, I changed my position years ago to a pro-death penalty stance. The even newer evidence cited above serves to strongly bolster this position: The application of capital punishment deters on average 18 future murders.

This post also appears on Blogger News Network.

Were We Defeated in Vietnam?

Yesterday on NPR's Day to Day program, host Alex Chadwick's lead-in to a story about former Hmong fighters leaving Laos left my mouth agape and me sitting in stunned silence. I don't have the transcript (but you can hear the broadcast at the previous link), but what I heard was, "After our defeat in 1975...", referring, of course, to the fall of Saigon in the spring of that year. Whoever wrote that intro needs to review the history of the Vietnam war.

By 1975, US military forces were no longer in South Vietnam, yet the story lead-in clearly suggests that US forces were 'defeated' on the field of battle. For sure, the political objectives of the US in that war were not achieved, but to suggest that the many brave Americans who served in Vietnam were defeated at the hands of the Communists is so far from the truth as to be laughable.

The US military has never lost a war, though in Vietnam America lost her will to fight, but only after the concerted efforts of the Left and the media to misinform the public about the war and our chances for victory. It's no wonder that some would like to see NPR's programming more balanced.

I often wonder, hypothetically speaking, how the Vietnam war would have played out had the blogosphere been in existence then. What if ordinary folks like you and me had the opportunity to challenge the MSM people like Dan Rather, Eric Severide, and Walter Chronkite? We were told, before we understood the clear bias now admitted by many of these "objective" journalists, that the Tet Offensive was was major victory for the North Vietnamese, yet nowadays military historians say that Tet was a resounding victory for US forces.

How many millions in South Vietnam and Cambodia could have been saved had it not been for the mainstream media and the Left's unchallenged characterizations of the war and its progress? How much blood is on their hands?

Share your thoughts by posting a comment.

This post also appears on Blogger News Network.

The Downing Street Memo (again!)

My earlier post on this subject generated an interesting exchange of comments on the Blogger News Network, (my piece was co-posted on BNN) and I have reprinted them below for clarity.

Futher support of my position can be found in today's National Review Online article by James S. Robbins. He does an excellent job of showing how the DSM contains no new information, and certainly is not grounds for impeachment.

Here is the comment string from BNN:

I don't think that you understand what the real key passage of the memo is. It isn't the passage that you highlighted; rather, it's the part that says, "But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." After all, it's no secret that Bush wanted to oust Saddam. That's not an impeachable offense, as you pointed out. However, fixing intelligence to make the case for war sound better is treason. That's the reason that many conservative pundits have turned against the president (upon reading the memo).

Comment by Gary Manchot, 6/4/2005 8:51:15 AM

Author Replies: I fully understand the passage you note. However, I disagree with your inference that "fixed around the policy" means that inteligence was fabricated to suit the policy. The DSM does not say or imply that, and there is absolutely no evidence to support that contention. My view of that passage is that the Bush administration sought evidence to support their desire to remove Saddam, nothing more.


Comment by James Z. Smith, 6/4/2005 9:00:41 AM

You certainly seem in a big hurry to sweep this under the rug (move along, no memo here). At the very very least it needs to be investigated. These are official minutes of a top secret government meeting. Have you read the memo?

“We are doing everything we can to avoid war in Iraq. But if Saddam Hussein does not disarm peacefully, he will be disarmed by force”
- George W. Bush,
Radio Address Mar. 8, 2003

This was after the memo - The US was already bombing Iraq.

Comment by Jospeh, 6/4/2005 9:06:35 AM

Not only have you disregarded the real highlights of the memo but you leave out the part that confirms the US admit iran and north korea were bigger threats.

which is why we on the left believe those on the right are willing to forgive anything right up and beyond treason as long as its republican.

And further I am disgusted by the rights ability to forgive lying to the american public on Tv and publically for monthhs because 'it wasnt under oath' I have seen people say that Clinton lying under oath about sex is a greater tyrranny then lying publically over and over and over to lead our soldiers to an illegal war. Then they take pride in how 51 percent of americans agree with them that being lied to on TV is A-ok. It goes beyond hypocrisy to the level of simply not caring whats just and right as loon as it results in republican power.

Alex.

Comment by Alexande, 6/4/2005 10:44:39 AM

Alex, prove that Bush has ever lied about Iraq, or anything else. To simply make accusations without proof is not helpful to anyone or any cause. In fact, your hurt your cause by making these same tired arguments without providing any proof.

Comment by James Z. Smith, 6/4/2005 11:27:22 AM

I agree with you when you say that the memo makes no contention that intelligence was fabricated. The Bush adminsistration did not do that. What they did do, however, was just as sinister. Now, you must acknowledge that the CIA gets information from all types of sources. For any given event, they'll receive conflicting reports as to what is happening. It's the government's job to sort through and pick out what is credible and what is not. Now, when it came to the issue of WMDs in Iraq, they had many reports denying that Iraq had WMDs, and one confirming them. The one confirming them relied on the hearsay of the infamous "Curveball," who, as I'm sure you know, was dismissed by German intelligence as "unreliable and alcoholic," a fact which the CIA knew very well. Bush had all of this intelligence in front of him, a fact which he has never denied.

You see, the point that you're missing is that "fixed around the policy" doesn't imply fabrication. Here, it means that they ignored the strong evidence contradicting WMDs in favor of the sparse evidence supporting them. To make an analogy, consider a prosecuting attorney with two pieces of evidence for a particular crime. On the one hand, there is DNA evidence proving that the defendant wasn't present at the crime scene. On the other, there is a drunk man who says that he saw the defendant commit the crime. There is a reason that it would be illegal for the prosecutor to hide the DNA evidence from the defense and to only enter into evidence the man's testimony: to do so would be a great injustice, as not telling the whole truth is indistinguishable from lying. Likewise, not considering the whole truth is unacceptable when making a decision to go to war.

Up until now, the Bush Administration has enjoyed plausible deniability: they didn't lie, they just screwed up. However, assuming that this memo proves to be authentic, it proves that they were intentionally not telling us a large part of the truth. But is that lying? According to the Merriam-Webster's dictionary, there are two definitons of "lie:" either to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive, or to create a false or misleading impression. Clearly, what Bush did satisfies the latter definition.

Comment by Gary Manchot, 6/4/2005 2:08:56 PM

Gary, first, I very much appreciate the high-level dialog on this matter. So much of the Blogosphere is gutter-level name calling.

I agree that not telling the whole truth is akin to lying. If you or anyone else can prove to reasonable people that the Bush administration deliberately lied, or deliberately didn't tell the whole truth, then I will quickly come over the side of impeachment. However, nothing in the DSM proves anything of the sort.

The build up to the war included many complex reasons. Not to be discounted is the very deeply held belief of GWB and TB that the real threat from Iraq was the potential for Iraq to supply WMD's to terrorists. That fact of that fear is indisputible and I reference the many statements by both men in that regard in my post. They felt that if Saddam remained in power after sanctions were removed, something Saddam was working hard to acheive, that he could secretly supply lots of very nasty weapons to terrorists. I share that view, and the Duelfer Report (also referenced in my post), while clearly admitting that the intelligence on WMD's was wrong, confirms that this was a clear aim of the Saddam regime.



Comment by James Z. Smith, 6/4/2005 7:34:45 PM

"What is wrong with having an opinion or desire, and then seeking evidence to support that opinion?"

Because you don't make policy for a democracy around opinion. You make policy around FACTS. There is a clear differance between opinion and facts. Opinion may not by it's very nature be independently proven. You may have the opinion that the jews are evil and must exterminated. You are entitled to this opinion. You are not entitled to exterminate a population based on this opinion. What evidence do you suppose hitler used? This may not be a good example. What may be a better example is redefining words like clinton did. Reguardless words are not to be redefined to fit your "agenda." You may be content with your leaders making policy based their ideology (opinion). I perfer policy to be make based upon facts that I myself or other parties can verify. While not being a constitutional lawyer it is my OPINION that they would also find facts to be more important than an opinion as well.

Comment by Andyc, 6/4/2005 8:27:07 PM

Many Republicans seem to think that the movement to investigate the issues surrounding U.S. pre-war intelligence is just to try to get Bush out of office. This is false. I would like to give them every assurance of that. We want an inquiry, not an impeachment. We want to know what the truth is.

Granted, a "Resolution of Inquiry" is a neccessary precursor to impeachment, however, it does not neccessarily lead to impeachment. A Resolution of Inquiry is an attempt to discover facts. Such an Inquiry, when complete, may produce some answers, at which point, each member of Congress will have a duty to seriously consider those facts, and to determine, based on those facts, in their relation to the public (this means you) trust, the proper and just course of action, whatever that may be.

It has certainly been a long time, and some people may feel that this issue is old; that it has already been gone over. The truth is, it hasn't:

"The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence has dropped its previous plan to review how U.S. policymakers used Iraq intelligence, and the president's commission on intelligence did not look into the subject because it was not authorized to do so by its charter, Laurence H. Silberman, the co-chairman, told reporters last month." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/12/AR2005051201857.html From The Washington Post: British Intelligence Warned of Iraq War)

This issue has not been investigated, and therefore, we do not yet know what really happened. We want to know. Don't you? Aren't you the least bit curious? You have every right to know.

Comment by Kevin Baas, 6/5/2005 7:23:28 AM

Kevin, yes, I am curious, but I will need to see more evidence of suspected wrong-doing before I will support a long, expensive "fishing expedition" for facts. So far I have seen nothing—not a shred of evidence—that would warrant such an investigation. If detectives asked a judge for a search warrant based on the available information, it would not be granted. Right now, there is no evidence that a "crime" has even been committed.

If you can provide such evidence, I will stand with you for a thorough investigation.

Comment by James Z. Smith, 6/5/2005 11:37:56 AM

Hi James,

How about reading some of these links, to give you a feel of where Bush & Co were coming from:

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil on CBS' 60 Minutes (Interview on 1/11/2004):
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml

"“From the very beginning, there was a conviction, that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go,” says O’Neill, who adds that going after Saddam was topic "A" 10 days after the inauguration - eight months before Sept. 11.

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying ‘Go find me a way to do this,’" says O’Neill. “For me, the notion of pre-emption, that the U.S. has the unilateral right to do whatever we decide to do, is a really huge leap.
===============================================

Colin Powell (2/23 2/24/01) in Egypt:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/2001/931.htm
http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/2001/933.htm

"I think we ought to declare [the containment policy] a success. We have kept him contained, kept him in his box." He added Saddam "is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors" and that "he threatens not the United States." (2/23/01)

“…He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.”
===================================================

CIA Director George Tenet on his Review of Global Weapons-Technology Proliferation
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/unmovic/2003/0630selling.htm


“...he [Tenet] did not even mention a nuclear threat from Iraq, though he did warn of one from North Korea. The review said only, "We believe that Iraq has probably continued at least low-level theoretical R&D [research and development] associated with its nuclear program."
[Source: Global Policy Forum-John B. Judis and Spencer Ackerman, June 30, 2003]
=====================================================

Wolfowitz Had CIA Probe UN Diplomat in Charge [Washington Post 4/15/2002]
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/2002/0415cia.htm

After receiving a CIA report that concluded that Hans Blix had conducted inspections of Iraq's declared nuclear power plants "fully within the parameters he could operate" when Blix was head of the international agency responsible for these inspections prior to the Gulf War, a report indicated that "Wolfowitz ‘hit the ceiling’ because the CIA failed to provide sufficient ammunition to undermine Blix and, by association, the new U.N. weapons inspection program."
========================================================

The above is only a spattering of information available on the internet, which began BEFORE the invasion. Statements such as these simply can't be dismissed out of hand. The more you research, the more you'll be convinced. It's simply a matter of obtaining official documents and commencing an independent inquiry.

One last thing, crimes are not proven BEFORE an inquiry. Evidence is gathered first, and then presented. Evidence is everywhere. Just look for it. Downing Street Memo/Minutes is one, and the RAF Bombing Raids even before UN Resolution 1441 is another:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1632566,00.html

If you'd like to read some great timelines, may I suggest the following website references:

Center for American Progress
Neglecting Intelligence, Ignoring Warnings (Downloadable Files available)
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=24889

Global Security.Org
Attacking Iraq – Countdown Timeline
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq-timeline.htm

The Guardian
Iraq timeline: July 16 1979 to January 31 2004
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/page/0,12438,793802,00.html

The Left Coaster
Timeline Leading to Iraq War
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/000390.php

Comment by Terre, 6/5/2005 6:22:03 PM

And a couple more websites for your review, as if I haven't given you enough. I hope you'll also visit a UK site that explains the PNAC - The Project for the New American Century. This group was involved with a pre-occupation to remove Saddam from power back in the Clinton years. Do have a look. There are plenty of links:
http://www.diplo.co.uk/words/pnac.php

And finally, if anyone (yourself included) would like to visit a simple site regarding the Downing Street Memo/Minutes, I'd like to invite you to come on by:
http://www.downingstreetmemo.com

Thanks for the opportunity to share with you.

Comment by Terre, 6/5/2005 6:43:07 PM

Hello Terre, and thank you for your well-researched and intelligent comment. Since I do actually have a life, I haven't had time, I will admit, to review all the links you have provided. However, I have reviewed a few, and will comment accordingly.

First, I looked at the timeline provided in the link to GlobalSecurity.org, a fine site I visit often. While this may seem unbelievable to you, Terre, I still see nothing new, and certainly nothing that suggests illegal activities or actions on anyone's part. Moreover, I googled the joint resolution passed by the Congress in Oct 02 (http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf) passed overwhelingly by the Republican House and Democratic Senate, by the way, which essentially aligns completely with the argument put forth by the Bush and Blair administrations earlier. Both the government's of the US and UK had access to essentially the same intel—including in the US the Senate and House Intelligence committee's— and everyone had the same conclusion. In fact, there is really no one anywhere in any government who disputed the perceived threat Iraq posed; the only difference was how to deal with that threat. To suggest otherwise now is disingenous.

Regarding your thinking on evidence ("crimes are not proven BEFORE an inquiry. Evidence is gathered first, and then presented."). I don't know where you reside, but here in the States, no official investigation if ever conducted without first showing clear evidence that a "crime" has been committed. Just because you 'think' a crime has been committed is not sufficient. You must show compelling evidence that clearly indicates a crime has been committed, otherwise, such an investigation is what is called in legal circles a "fishing expedition". (Don't you ever watch Law and Order?) :)

One last thing. It seems to me that you and everyone who wants this investigation is basing it on 1), your desire to see Bush impeached; and 2), the suggestion by the DSM that the Bush administration held a view possibly from Jan 20, 2001 that the ouster of Saddam was a good thing. Further, that their efforts to justify his ouster by showing that he was a threat (WMD's links to terrorists, etc.) was somehow immoral or unethical. Isn't however, your desire to see Bush impeached YOUR prior view, and isn't your desire for an investigation exactly the same moral question? If it was wrong to the Bush administration to do it, then isn't it also wrong now?

The evidence, by the way, for such an inquiry/intel search by the Bush administration against Iraq clearly meets the evidentiary standard I discussed earlier.

I will, as time allows, get through each of your links, and if you have provided enough evidence to satisfy the standard, I promise I will post in this very space a retraction of my original post, and further, I will call for a thorough investigation.



Comment by James Z. Smith, 6/5/2005 7:37:05 PM

Thanks for the thoughtful reply James. It's late here, and I'm about ready to hit the hay. I'll be back tomorrow (hopefully) and try to address your points. The crime/evidence thing was difficult for me to put into words. I'll try again tomorrow. And no, I don't ever watch Law & Order. Didn't you guess? :o)

Comment by Terre, 6/5/2005 10:46:14 PM

Hello again, Terre,

I had a chance to review your links (above), and I remain strongly UNCONVINCED of any illegal activities on the part of the Bush and Blair adminitrations. The information certainly shows an evolving policy, gaining a more aggressive posture, vìs-a-vìs Iraq, but nothing at all therein suggests anything more sinister than policy differences between those who believed that Iraq was a threat, and those who did not. Nothing, by the way, that we didn't already know, either.

That Bush/Blair sought justifications for their desire to remove Saddam from power is neither criminal, treasonous, nor immoral. In this case, only the fabrication of evidence would rise to that standard. If you or anyone can produce such evidence, I will, as I promised before, call for a thorough investigation by the appropriate authorities.

Comment by James Z. Smith, 6/6/2005 9:35:10 AM

Should Bush be Impeached over the Downing Street Memo?

The Downing Street Memo has caused an uproar on the Left. They see it as justification for the impeachment of George W. Bush, and they are absolutely stunned that the whole world doesn't agree with their assessment.

As argued by this author before, however, there just isn't anything that we've learned from the DSM that we really didn't know before. Moreover, there is nothing in the DSM that proves that anyone in the Bush or Blair administration "lied", as we so often hear from the Left. That George Bush wanted to remove Saddam Hussein earlier than he has publicly admitted is not new or news, and certainly is not a "high crime or misdemeanor", the constitutional standard for impeachment. In fact, no one anywhere has ever produced a single shred of evidence that anyone in the Bush administration ever "lied" about anything. For sure, the intelligence on Iraq's WMD's was tragically wrong, but as the Duelfer Report made clear in October of last year, the ouster of Saddam was the right thing to do even if we'd known for sure before the invasion that Iraq had no WMD's.

The key passage of the DSM is this:

"Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD."

The Left views this as proving their contention that Bush wanted to oust Saddam all along, and sought evidence to justify it after the fact with phony intelligence.

Their argument rings hollow for a simple and obvious reason: What is wrong with having an opinion or desire, and then seeking evidence to support that opinion? Isn't that exactly what the Left has done here? They have always viewed Bush as an illegitimate president, and have long sought evidence to back up their view of him. There is nothing at all wrong with that, just as there was nothing wrong with the Bush administration's position on Iraq and their opinion that the "conjunction of terrorism and WMD" was justification enough to remove Saddam. Further, there is nothing wrong with seeking evidence to support that position.

Prior to the war, both Bush and Blair made it clear many times (and here, and here, and here, etc., etc.) that they believed that the threat of Iraq supplying WMD's to terrorists was too great a threat to remain unchallenged, and further, that Iraqi people deserve better than the brutal tyranny of Saddam Hussein and his henchmen. That ultimately no WMD's were found is a very good thing, but the threat of Saddam still in place following sanction still clearly justifies his removal.

If this is the best argument the Left has against Bush, it's time to drop it and 'move on'.

This post also appears on Blogger News Network.

Downing Street Memo **UPDATE**

Sorry, I just don't get all the fuss on the Left about the Downing Street Memo. The memo was written by an aide to British Prime Minister Tony Blair in July of 2002, and describes discussions, meetings, and plans with the United States on Iraq. The Left claims that this is the "smoking gun" they need to show that the Bush Administration 'ginned up' the intelligence on Iraq to justify their desire to oust Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq.

Does anyone doubt that after 9/11 that one way or another we would remove the potential threat that Saddam Hussein posed? Moreover, nothing I can read here says anything about anyone deliberately "lying", or covering up anything. To argue that Bush and Blair sought the removal of Saddam earlier than they've admitted publically proves nothing.

No smoke, no gun.

Read the memo yourself and decide. (Hat tip Fox News)

UPDATE: Comments (below) from a reader have prompted this update.

These links are interesting, but still provide us with no new information, just as the DSM does not either. Quoting from the articles of impeachment against Nixon proves nothing; This passage, in fact, has nothing to do at all with how the president handled Iraq. All that the other links provide are more reports about what we already know, to wit:

1. Bush wanted to remove Saddam Hussien from power earlier than he announced publicly. So what? Lots of people agreed with that assessment. The removal of Saddam and the freeing of the Iraqi people from his tyrrany was always a stated goal for the war.

2. The intelligence they sought regarding WMD's turned out to be wrong. But prior to the war NO ONE on the Left or Right was debating that point. Sure, the UN inspectors wanted more time to search, but at the time everyone believed that he had WMD's, and that the inspectors would have to conduct a cat and mouse game to find them. The longer it took, the more time the crooks in the UN OFF program had to get rich, along with their friends in France, Germany, and Russia.

3. Despite the intelligence on Iraq's WMD's being wrong (gathered by a CIA whose intelligence gathering capability had been severely restricted by now-disgraced Robert Torrecelli and his Democratic friends in the Congress and Bill Clinton), the Iraq Survey Group clearly identified the threat Saddam posed in it's Duelfer Report as commented on in this space in October of 2004.

Finally, while I know that the Left is desparate to impeach George Bush, I still have yet to see an impeachable offence from anyone in his administration. For sure, the DSM does not prove such a thing, and nothing I have seen before or since has proven to my satisfaction that anyone in the administration is guilty of anything more than publicity errors. Prove "Bush lied" and maybe I'll change my tune. Until then, "no smoke, no gun."